04/06/2006 01:30 PM Senate TRANSPORTATION
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| SB18 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 18 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
April 6, 2006
1:37 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair
Senator John Cowdery, Vice Chair
Senator Hollis French
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Gene Therriault
Senator Albert Kookesh
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 18
"An Act relating to motor vehicles equipped with data recording
or transmitting devices."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 18
SHORT TITLE: AUTO DEALERS DISCLOSURE DATA RECORDER
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) ELTON
01/11/05 (S) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04
01/11/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/11/05 (S) TRA, JUD
04/06/06 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
PAUL A. WILEY, Staff to Senator Elton
State Capitol, Room 115
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 18
KEVIN O'NEIL
Chief of Staff to Senator Tim Leslie, California
Tahoe City, CA
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 18
CLYDE E. (ED) SNIFFEN JR., Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
PO Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 18
SENATOR KIM ELTON
State Capitol, Room 115
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor, SB 18
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:37:33 PM. Present were Senators
John Cowdery, Hollis French and Chair Charlie Huggins.
SB 18-AUTO DEALERS DISCLOSURE DATA RECORDER
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS announced SB 18 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR KIM ELTON, sponsor, introduced staff member, Paul Wiley
to assist him with an explanation of the bill.
SENATOR ELTON said that the bill accomplishes two things:
Section 1 provides for consumer notification and section 2
provides a recipe for release of data that is collected by an
event data recorder (EDR), or "black box". He explained that
black boxes record speed, seat belt, stopping distance, braking
data, steering data, and severity of impact data. They have been
commonly used since the late 1990's to improve the safety of
cars. General Motors (GM) began using them extensively in 1998,
and over half the cars sold in the 2004 model year are equipped
with them. Its data is designed to be downloaded and used by car
manufacturers to improve the safety of their vehicles, but legal
experts say that it can be used as evidence in civil or criminal
court cases. The problem is that most owners have no idea
whether an EDR is installed in their vehicle. In addition, a
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) study of
700 crashes found a 40 percent error rate in the data.
1:40:14 PM
SENATOR ELTON said the NHTSA position is that EDRs and the data
recorded on them should belong to the automobile owners. AAA
believes the presence of an EDR should be disclosed to the buyer
and that the data should be aggregated and used only for safety
research.
1:42:53 PM
SENATOR ELTON explained that Section 1 of the bill proposes a
simple notification to the buyer, perhaps just a disclosure
tucked into the owner's manual. Section 2 defines three ways
that data can be used: the owner can authorize its use for any
purpose; a court can subpoena the data for use as evidence; it
can be aggregated and used for safety research. He said that six
states have passed similar legislation with broad bipartisan
support including Arkansas, Texas, North Dakota and California.
1:45:05 PM
SENATOR ELTON said that the Alliance for Auto Manufacturers
suggested a couple of minor changes to the language and asked if
Chair Huggins wanted him to go over those changes.
CHAIR HUGGINS replied not at this time.
1:45:51 PM
SENATOR COWDERY asked if this is beneficial to the consumer.
SENATOR ELTON responded yes, but it is a double-edged sword. It
is becoming more common for insurance carriers to ask for data
from the EDR when investigating claims, and he believes that the
consumer should have the right to control release of that data
unless it has been subpoenaed or is required for safety
research.
SENATOR COWDERY asked if Senator Elton had said that 40 percent
of the data is inaccurate.
SENATOR ELTON responded that in its study of 700 crashes, NHTSA
had problems with 40 percent of the data gathered. Some of the
problems might have been due to equipment damage during the
crash, or to download failure.
SENATOR COWDERY asked how many cases in Alaska have used this
tool to prosecute.
SENATOR ELTON answered that he has not heard of any in Alaska. A
prosecutor in New York did convict the owner of a car on a
criminal charge based on data that was collected from an EDR;
but the data was accessed through a subpoena, which this bill
allows.
1:50:06 PM
PAUL WILEY, Staff to Senator Kim Elton, commented that he
recognizes that the data could be useful to insurance companies
for setting rates and investigating claims, and the bill does
not intend to hinder them.
SENATOR COWDERY commented that insurance companies charge
different rates for different types of cars based on actuarial
data. He questioned what the benefit would be to the insurance
company or to the insured, if the data is not accurate.
1:52:04 PM
SENATOR ELTON responded that an attorney might use the data to
cast doubt on the testimony of a witness whether or not it is
totally accurate. He asked Senator Hollis if, as an attorney, he
could comment on that.
SENATOR HOLLIS said that Senator Elton is correct and, to the
extent that there are deficiencies in the data, they would be
discovered during cross-examination.
1:53:41 PM
SENATOR ELTON said that there are different devices on a car
that collect data and are not implicated by this legislation.
The device that captures air pressure in tires is one example,
OnStar is another that offers road emergency and location
services through a contractual subscription. Some insurance
companies provide a rate discount to customers who allow them
access to OnStar data for the first 6 months of coverage. Black
boxes are different in that the consumer is not told about the
presence of an EDR and he has no choice in the collection of its
data.
MR. WILEY added that, relative to data inaccuracy, it is more
often a problem with the harvesting of the data and how it is
deciphered, than with the data itself. One reason for this bill
is to ensure that the data is extracted and read by people
trained to do it properly.
1:57:47 PM
SENATOR COWDERY asked who currently gives permission to harvest
data on a black box after an accident.
SENATOR ELTON responded that typically the information is
harvested by a car dealer or repair shop. One relatively benign
use for the data by car dealers is to assist in servicing. He
said that he thinks that use should be allowed under the bill.
1:59:17 PM
SENATOR COWDERY asked whether a car dealer might access the data
even if it were not needed for servicing.
SENATOR ELTON replied probably not. He qualified that by saying
that there are uses the dealer might make of the data that could
be detrimental to the consumer. For example, if a person brings
his car in for warranty work and the dealer finds that he was
going 200 mph in second gear, it might void the warranty. As
long as the consumer is aware of the presence of the EDR, he
feels that the trade-off is justified.
2:01:15 PM
SENATOR COWDERY said that he can see both sides of the issue. If
a driver is going 80 mph in a school zone, he does not feel the
data should be protected. On the other hand, there is privacy
to be considered.
SENATOR ELTON responded that if a person breaks the law, the
police can obtain access to the data in the same way they can
obtain information of other kinds to aid in an investigation.
2:02:29 PM
He said a second-degree benefit is that, if the consumer knows
the EDR is there and what it does, a rational consumer might
behave differently, knowing the data being collected might be
used against him in a law enforcement situation.
MR. WILEY remarked to Senator Cowdery that the bill is not
intended to keep manufacturers or dealers from using the data
legitimately.
2:04:13 PM
SENATOR COWDERY asked what the original purpose of the device
was.
SENATOR ELTON responded that it was to improve safety in
automobiles and passenger vehicles.
2:04:52 PM
SENATOR FRENCH commented that Senator Cowdery has outlined the
competing policies in this issue.
SENATOR COWDERY reminded the committee that they heard a bill on
aftermarket parts a few years ago. That bill was brought because
research on data collected from EDRs disclosed that the use of
aftermarket parts caused a delay in the deployment of airbags.
He said that he thinks that type of benefit justifies the use of
these devices.
2:06:15 PM
SENATOR ELTON said that he remembers that bill and it represents
a perfectly legitimate use of the data, one that is allowed
under this bill. Data can be harvested for the purpose of
research to improve automobile safety. The one caveat is that
the auto manufacturer gets the data in a way that does not
identify the owner or the driver.
2:07:02 PM
SENATOR FRENCH asked whether one has to actually plug something
in to get the data right now.
MR. WILEY replied that in most cases, yes. There are other
types of black boxes though, such as those EDRs connected to
OnStar using a satellite uplink.
2:08:08 PM
SENATOR FRENCH commented that it is not hard to see the next
step in the evolution of this technology. An insurance agent
could drive by the repair shop after a car has been involved in
an accident and download the data using a wireless connection.
This bill provides some measure of privacy and forces the agent
to come to the owner for permission to use the data.
SENATOR ELTON added that it is permissible under this bill for a
consumer to sign a contract with an insurance agent providing
access to the data; but that means the consumer knows the EDR is
there and has made a decision to release access to the data. He
said he suspects that most Alaskans don't even know their
vehicle has such a device.
MR. WILEY pointed out that another benefit of disclosure is that
the consumer could provide the data to police or to the
insurance company to clear him of responsibility for an
accident; but if he does not know that the EDR is there, the
data is likely to be lost.
SENATOR ELTON added that it is only beneficial if the consumer
knows about it.
2:10:32 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what the device costs.
MR. WILEY replied that it not a stand-alone device, it is
generally part of the airbag system, so there is no extra cost
to the consumer.
CHAIR HUGGINS pointed out that GM pays something for it.
SENATOR ELTON responded that he doesn't know what that cost is.
2:11:52 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS commented that he supposes the consumer is paying
for it, but if the data is intended to provide information only
to the manufacturer, the cost may not be passed on. He said he
would be interested to know.
SENATOR ELTON said he would check on it.
CHAIR HUGGINS said that, in our society, representing a client
in court is often more a sporting proposition than a search for
objective information; but if one is looking for the truth and
this box can provide the facts of the matter, he does not
understand why it should not be used.
2:14:15 PM
He also said that he assumes the accuracy of the data will
continue to improve and that it will ultimately be 90-95 percent
accurate and wireless. It might be useful to the majority of
citizens in holding down their insurance rates, because
insurance companies could properly target high-risk clients. He
thinks the people who would benefit from it would want the data
to be made available.
2:15:59 PM
KEVIN O'NEAL, Chief of Staff to Senator Tim Leslie, California,
said that California was the first state to pass a bill like
this. This bill allows consumers to know the device is on the
car and controls how the information it captures can be used. It
is important to remember that the EDRs under discussion gather
information and only record in the event of an accident. Also,
the information is encrypted so it cannot be read except by
someone who has the right equipment. It was intended for use by
GM to improve the safety of its vehicles, not by police or
insurance companies.
The black box on an airplane is not a good example to use in
discussing this legislation, he said, because everyone knows
there is a black box on an airplane. Also, because it is public
transportation, the public has a right to know what was recorded
in the event of an accident. One might argue that a multiple car
collision also gives the public the right to know, but consumers
don't know that there is an EDR in their personal vehicles, so
it is a different situation.
He ended by saying that this is a good bill.
2:19:14 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked Mr. O'Neal why California did not choose to
disclose the existence of an EDR in the purchase contract.
MR. O'NEAL responded that they worked closely with GM and
decided that the owner's manual was the best place for it.
Manufacturers print new manuals for every model year, so it was
a simple matter to insert a page regarding the EDR. Also,
information printed in the sales contract does not provide any
statutory protection in the event of an accident.
He said that he agrees that the data should be used if it could
prove a person was not at fault in an accident, but the
insurance company is going to fight over that anyway.
2:20:34 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS commented to Mr. O'Neal that it sounds as if he
favors releasing EDR data only if it can prove a person was not
at fault. He asked whether he thought it should be used if the
individual was at fault.
MR. O'NEAL answered that, if a person is at fault, there are
other avenues to get that information. Under California law, the
insurance company would go after the information on the guilty
party's EDR using a subpoena if necessary. Either way it will
end up in court.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked Mr. O'Neal if California has tracked any
impact on insurance rates since passing the bill.
MR. O'NEAL replied no.
2:22:17 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked whether Greyhound buses have to be equipped
with a black box.
MR. O'NEAL replied that he does not know.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if Mr. O'Neal had anything to add.
MR. O'NEAL replied that there are republican principles in this
bill, which is why Tim [Leslie] carried it forward. If the auto
manufacturers have nothing to hide, there is no reason that
consumers should not know about these devices.
2:23:47 PM
ED SNIFFEN, Assistant Attorney General, said that he was
available to answer questions and that the Department of Law
prepared a zero fiscal note, but it was not completed in time
for this hearing.
SENATOR FRENCH advised Mr. Sniffen that the committee has a copy
of the fiscal note.
2:24:51 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said that this bill is intriguing, and his
reaction is to wonder how to leverage the technology to
everyone's advantage, not how to keep it private.
SENATOR ELTON said that is a good point, but he has a couple of
responses, neither of which is provable. He said he thinks there
is an effect on insurance. If the data is used by car
manufacturers as allowed under this bill, it should have a
beneficial effect on rates because cars will become safer. It
also has the potential to change some driver behavior, if
drivers know that data is being collected. But there is a "Big
Brother" element here as well. If these devices are installed
and working without the knowledge of the consumer, it is like
having a "snitch" along all the time. The main thing is that the
consumer knows it is there.
In summary, he said that he thinks there are beneficial uses for
the data, and the bill is structured in such a way that it does
not constrain those uses.
2:29:01 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS noted that it is a matter of perspective. If
someone close to you is a victim in a major accident and the
answer to what happened is in that black box, you might care
very little about anyone's privacy. On the other hand, most
people don't want anyone to gather information about them. There
was a terrible backlash in Anchorage when the assembly approved
the use of photo radar, yet Alaskans voted to put camera
surveillance in the schools. It's a matter of where it is, how
it is used, and how close you are to it.
SENATOR FRENCH said that he got a photo radar ticket and thinks
he is one of the only people who has actually paid one.
SENATOR ELTON said that the Chair's point was well taken, but he
suspects that any data related to a major accident would
automatically be subpoenaed.
2:32:42 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked if he could go through the NHTSA's
suggestions.
CHAIR HUGGINS agreed.
SENATOR ELTON listed the suggested changes starting on page 1,
line 9, after "device", add the words "or feature", so that it
reads "a device or feature that is installed"; and on line 11,
strike "records where the vehicle travels", because direction of
travel is not collected by a black box. On lines 13-14, strike
the language at bottom of the page that reads "or has the
ability to transmit information about an accident in which the
vehicle is involved to a central communications system". A black
box does not do that, and it implicates services like OnStar,
which are not affected by this legislation.
He apologized for not having these cleanup amendments
incorporated into the bill before it was presented, but
Legislative Legal was behind and could not get to it.
2:35:41 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said that GPS and automatic data recording will
soon be in cell phones, and he was just thinking about who owns
the phones and data.
SENATOR FRENCH said that cell phone locating technology exists
because the towers relay which tower is picking up your
information, and it is obtainable by court order.
CHAIR HUGGINS said that his point was that this conversation
will get broader in our society, and the legislature has to be
sure about the precedent it is setting in how it approaches
this.
SENATOR ELTON summarized by saying that he does not disagree. He
thinks that in this instance, as in many others, the cure is to
simply let consumers know what they are getting.
[SB 18 was held over.]
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Huggins adjourned the Senate Transportation Standing
Committee meeting at 2:37:06 PM.
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